Windscreen problems - buffeting and noise

Graves

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Staff member
Legendary Rider
Aug 14, 2016
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Have you tried just taking the windscreen off? Maybe lower is the way to go instead of taller.

lol .... go for it 😂

Maybe nice and slow for a while - and DON'T try to grab it if it flies off. 👍

I don't think mine gets quite that close to the forks / bars - hopefully it won't jam up if it comes loose.
 

DELLA

Member
Sep 7, 2018
85
30
8
Hochstadt
Ok , so after my trip home in 7 Deg C I can say this is a reasonable modification,
I'm more comfortable generally and up to a speed of 160kmh (fast enough I think
for the test) my Enduro helmet no longer tries to pull my head off. Its a generally
more relaxing experience. As I normally drive without the goggles on ( I wear glasses )
I also found my eyes were not so discomforted by the air , for some that's probably even more important.

Again remember Im 6ft and using the Adventure tall screen and tall seat on the CRF L

Interestingly while running at 140 kmh , I was now able to test where the air is coming from
that makes my chest shoulders colder its mostly from 5-10cm over the indicators , no surprise
perhaps but this air is definitely not being diverted around me. The design of the screen clearance
is such that I doubt you can easily do much about this.

So Im now going to look at purchasing one of these Fork deflectors.
They will improve the buffeting situation on the helmet.
 

inexorable

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2018
158
52
58
UK
@Graves - yup, the first thing on my weekend test list is "no screen & no air dam" - then I'm going to test everything up from there.

@DELLA - Good result 👍 - you'll need 3 different size allen bits for the job. The Honda bolts are special and all use the same allen size even though they are different bolt widths (M5 & M6 I believe) and different styles (two are shouldered). The new ones use two different allen sizes - neither of which are the OEM size. :rolleyes:
 

BlackRockFox

Active Member
Nov 14, 2018
16
3
33
England
.... or not :mad:

Just got a notification that the eBay seller I'm getting the adjustable Givi screen from has let me down - they said I would receive it today. So, I won't have the screen for weekend testing after all. Not impressed "newcastlemotorcycles". I'll test the rest though.
Sorry to hear that :mad:
I was looking FWD to your review
I have made a note of the seller and won't be using them

Good luck with sorting
 

inexorable

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2018
158
52
58
UK
Well they may have been late but they came through and delivered the Givi Airflow screen today - thanks newcastlemotorcycles 👍

As it turns out I didn't need it over the weekend because as far as testing is concerned I'm afraid I did none of it.

Long story short - I lost a screen well nut into the fairing Friday night - but I didn't care because I needed to take it apart anyway (to wire up the EasternBeaver PC8 & SatNav - and to just learn about the bike). I was quite excited about getting stuck in.

An excitement that led to complete front fairing removal in the cold and dark (by phone light) on Friday night.... which led to hours of searching for a tiny little #@#!!&* plastic clip that I now hate (and that will be forever lost in the depths of the bike) ... which led to 2am and a couple of hours sleep leading back to a bleary eyed me in the garage at 7am (hooray for daylight) - which led to more searching involving a 3/4 full tank removal... which led to a smashed phone... followed by a trip to the post office to pick up the EasternBeaver PC8 at 9am - followed by a whole day Saturday and most of Sunday exploring the bike, "fixing" and attempting to install the PC8 and becoming more and more disillusioned with Honda.

The up side is that I now have a rough idea of how to fully strip the front fairing & plastics and remove the tank - and a good grasp of how outright mad some of the Honda design monkeys are. I'm talking about you, you "muppet fairing design" team - and you, you "daft tank fixing plastic shield and wiring tray thingy" team - and especially you, you "morons that designed the whole battery setup shambles" team. Come on Honda some of this stuff is laughable. These are things that are supposed to be taken apart - and more than once! Legendary Honda build quality? Ludicrous design decisons implemented well might be a better description.

I'll make a post but until then, my advice to my 3-days-ago self is be careful and work SLOWLY. Once you've done this you will be sure that Honda went out of their way to make this stuff difficult - and there are a few things clearly designed to break - so stay calm, don't get frustrated and don't start unless you have plenty of time on your hands. I think there might also be some subtle 2018 differences from earlier models which could easily mean broken stuff if you follow some of the youtube videos I've seen for fairing removal. Oh and don't do this in the dark while holding your phone. You will lose a clip down into the bike and you'll never see it again.

Anyway - from Honda's stupidity to mine.

I can see why so many people lose the screen well nuts like I did. Look out for this...

ATWellNuts1.jpg

Notice the different positions of the well nut in the pic above and the size of the holes around them. The one on the left is where they need to be when they are being used. You stand a good 5% chance of not losing it here. The one on the right is where they naturally end up when they are jiggled during screen removal etc. This is bad. It's not where it needs to be during use and YOU WILL LOSE IT IF YOU TOUCH IT.

The oddly shaped mounting holes are bigger at the bottom than the top. The idea being that you put it in where the gap is wider at the bottom then carefully slide it up into the smaller tighter hole at the top where it can be used a little more safely. There is still a good chance of pushing it through into the fairing in the top position so be careful - but you will almost definately lose it if you forget to slide it up and then touch it. This is what I did. Is this really the best you can do Honda? I can send my little girl in with her crayons if you want some advanced help with your next model. 👍

TIP :: If you always attach the screen using the top bolts first - then when you move to the bottom bolts you'll see if the well nuts are aligned correctly or if they have slipped down to the fatal position (or if you just forgot to check them). If you touch them with a bolt when in the lower position you're in for a long weekend. If they are not perfectlly aligned take the screen off again - don't try to adjust their position while attaching the screen.

:rolleyes:

IMG-20181117-WA0001 - Copy.jpeg

So, the bike is back together for now and I have the Givi AirFlow sitting next to me. Testing will hopefully happen during the week and at the weekend (depending on the weather). I'm looking for a dry day and a bad day to know what works best and when.
 
Last edited:

Graves

Moderator
Staff member
Legendary Rider
Aug 14, 2016
1,460
460
173
So. Cal.
It's only maddening to take apart the first couple of times, after that you get used to it and it all becomes fairly routine.

Well they may have been late but they came through and delivered the Givi Airflow screen today - thanks newcastlemotorcycles 👍

As it turns out I didn't need it over the weekend because as far as testing is concerned I'm afraid I did none of it.

Long story short - I lost a screen well nut into the fairing Friday night - but I didn't care because I needed to take it apart anyway (to wire up the EasternBeaver PC8 & SatNav - and to just learn about the bike). I was quite excited about getting stuck in.

An excitement that led to complete front fairing removal in the cold and dark (by phone light) on Friday night.... which led to hours of searching for a tiny little #@#!!&* plastic clip that I now hate (and that will be forever lost in the depths of the bike) ... which led to 2am and a couple of hours sleep leading back to a bleary eyed me in the garage at 7am (hooray for daylight) - which led to more searching involving a 3/4 full tank removal... which led to a smashed phone... followed by a trip to the post office to pick up the EasternBeaver PC8 at 9am - followed by a whole day Saturday and most of Sunday exploring the bike, "fixing" and attempting to install the PC8 and becoming more and more disillusioned with Honda.

The up side is that I now have a rough idea of how to fully strip the front fairing & plastics and remove the tank - and a good grasp of how outright mad some of the Honda design monkeys are. I'm talking about you, you "muppet fairing design" team - and you, you "daft tank fixing plastic shield and wiring tray thingy" team - and especially you, you "morons that designed the whole battery setup shambles" team. Come on Honda some of this stuff is laughable. These are things that are supposed to be taken apart - and more than once! Legendary Honda build quality? Ludicrous design decisons implemented well might be a better description.

I'll make a post but until then, my advice to my 3-days-ago self is be careful and work SLOWLY. Once you've done this you will be sure that Honda went out of their way to make this stuff difficult - and there are a few things clearly designed to break - so stay calm, don't get frustrated and don't start unless you have plenty of time on your hands. I think there might also be some subtle 2018 differences from earlier models which could easily mean broken stuff if you follow some of the youtube videos I've seen for fairing removal. Oh and don't do this in the dark while holding your phone. You will lose a clip down into the bike and you'll never see it again.

Anyway - from Honda's stupidity to mine.

I can see why so many people lose the screen well nuts like I did. Look out for this...

View attachment 1680

Notice the different positions of the well nut in the pic above and the size of the holes around them. The one on the left is where they need to be when they are being used. You stand a good 5% chance of not losing it here. The one on the right is where they naturally end up when they are jiggled during screen removal etc. This is bad. It's not where it needs to be during use and YOU WILL LOSE IT IF YOU TOUCH IT.

The oddly shaped mounting holes are bigger at the bottom than the top. The idea being that you put it in where the gap is wider at the bottom then carefully slide it up into the smaller tighter hole at the top where it can be used a little more safely. There is still a good chance of pushing it through into the fairing in the top position so be careful - but you will almost definately lose it if you forget to slide it up and then touch it. This is what I did. Is this really the best you can do Honda? I can send my little girl in with her crayons if you want some advanced help with your next model. 👍

TIP :: If you always attach the screen using the top bolts first - then when you move to the bottom bolts you'll see if the well nuts are aligned correctly or if they have slipped down to the fatal position (or if you just forgot to check them). If you touch them with a bolt when in the lower position you're in for a long weekend. If they are not perfectlly aligned take the screen off again - don't try to adjust their position while attaching the screen.

:rolleyes:

View attachment 1682

So, the bike is back together for now and I have the Givi AirFlow sitting next to me. Testing will hopefully happen during the week and at the weekend (depending on the weather). I'm looking for a dry day and a bad day to know what works best and when.
 

inexorable

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2018
158
52
58
UK
I'm sure that's true - I just can't ever remember getting so frustrated with a bike the first time through. I'm sure that there's a Honda design guy feeling a bit daft with some of what they have made here - compared to other bikes I mean.

Out of curiosity - for anyone that's had the tank off - how did you get that bit of plastic out from behind the seat brace bar without damaging it? Is it even possible? You have to remove it to get to the bolts to remove the bar to get to the tank bolt - but getting it out without removing the bar is almost impossible without bending it and stressing it to the point of making it go white. Chicken and egg. It's going to crack for sure next time I try to remove it. What am I missing?

I watched this video. This is not what happened to me. After quite some time of patience and wiggling, mine took all my effort and some serious plastic bending. Different for the 2018? Just my bike? I'm an incompetant fool? ... ha ha ha - I can't spell incompetent without looking it up - isn't life beautiful sometimes. 😂


The 2018 bike has a different electrical tray - no fairing clips holding it down on the 2018 - I'm wondering how much else is slightly different.
 

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Graves

Moderator
Staff member
Legendary Rider
Aug 14, 2016
1,460
460
173
So. Cal.
You take the seat latch out first, just have to have the right tools... like this (10MM 1/4" drive wobbly):

1542647808985.png

Then unhook all the wiring harness, fuse block, diagnostic connector, remove the plastic push pins and it all comes out without any hysterics. Unbolt the tank, pull it back a little and place a block of wood under the rear to get underneath to disconnect all of the plumbing and wiring. If you want a real thrill pull the air box off, you need fingers the size of a 5 year old with 6 knuckles that bend all directions... or a pair of really long needle nose pliers.

The body panels are a little tricky, but if you pull all the friction fit mounts out and then pull out and forward while jiggling it should come loose.


I'm sure that's true - I just can't ever remember getting so frustrated with a bike the first time through. I'm sure that there's a Honda design guy feeling a bit daft with some of what they have made here - compared to other bikes I mean.

Out of curiosity - for anyone that's had the tank off - how did you get that bit of plastic out from behind the seat brace bar without damaging it? Is it even possible? You have to remove it to get to the bolts to remove the bar to get to the tank bolt - but getting it out without removing the bar is almost impossible without bending it and stressing it to the point of making it go white. Chicken and egg. It's going to crack for sure next time I try to remove it. What am I missing?

I watched this video. This is not what happened to me. After quite some time of patience and wiggling, mine took all my effort and some serious plastic bending. Different for the 2018? Just my bike? I'm an incompetant fool? ... ha ha ha - I can't spell incompetent without looking it up - isn't life beautiful sometimes. 😂


The 2018 bike has a different electrical tray - no fairing clips holding it down on the 2018 - I'm wondering how much else is slightly different.
 

inexorable

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2018
158
52
58
UK
I did have a go at getting the bolts undone first but the welds around the bolt hole meant I couldnt get a ring spanner on the bolts with any more than 2mm of movement. Would have been there all night and decided they "couldn't have intended that surely". So I went with the video plan of trying to get the plastic out first - which almost proved costly. I'll have another go at removing the bolts first (without waving my arms about cursing etc). Cheers @Graves
 

Graves

Moderator
Staff member
Legendary Rider
Aug 14, 2016
1,460
460
173
So. Cal.
1/4" drive wobbly sockets with 24" extensions are wonderful things, use a little electrical tape to tape the socket to the extension so it docent fall off and go down into never never land, those sockets are expensive little buggers.

BTW: Ring spanner = box end wrench... for those of us state side.

I did have a go at getting the bolts undone first but the welds around the bolt hole meant I couldnt get a ring spanner on the bolts with any more than 2mm of movement. Would have been there all night and decided they "couldn't have intended that surely". So I went with the video plan of trying to get the plastic out first - which almost proved costly. I'll have another go at removing the bolts first (without waving my arms about cursing etc). Cheers @Graves
 

inexorable

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2018
158
52
58
UK
I didn't update this after testing - mostly because I still haven't found a good solutution.

The best I've found so far is the Givi Airflow adjustable screen - but just the bottom half. So basically as close to no screen as I can get. You called it @Graves. It's not good clean air but it's far better than any other setup that I've tried.

I've found a couple of configurations that will stop the buffetting (no screen being the best) but the roaring wind noise from the turbulance is still unbearable with any setup - even with my new super duper ear plugs. At 60mph+, a-top the Aftrica Twin is just a horrible place to be for me.... but I'm not giving up.

The weekend was quite wet and windy so it seemed like a good time for testing (suicidal pigeons aside). Standing upright at over 60mph in the wind and rain is calm and quiet. Bliss. A welcome break from being anywhere near the roar that the front of this bike creates. I can even hear the lovely exhaust tone when I stand up. 😂

So all I have to do now is work out a way to cancel out the Honda effect. Better ear plugs have helped but I'd prefer to find a way to quieten the roar and be able to hear the bike. I'll report back if I make any progress. ;)
 

mike5100

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2017
47
17
68
UK
cheap foam earplugs completely kill the wind noise as long as they are the right size and properly inserted. This means (for me) keeping them in the fridge, rolling them tight thencovering them in plenty of spittle and quickly getting them right down in the ear canal. If the first one fails to go right in, I try with the second cold one in my left ear which seems to have more of a complicated ear canal. The right seems to go in usually OK, If earplugs dont go far enough in or are too thin to fill the canal when expanded you almost might as well not bother
Mike
 

blalor

Active Member
Oct 10, 2017
6
0
31
Richmond, VA
I've been down this road and am still not really happy with the wind protection, but I did a 6,000 mile trip in September and survived. I'm 6', ~30" inseam. The best combination for me has been a large California Scientific windscreen that I cut down to stock height, an MRA X-Creen Sport wind deflector, and a DIY fork shield made from neoprene (which allowed me to strap a tank bag over the top of it). The CalSci screen is considerably wider, so it gets most of the wind off my shoulders. And I wear Howard Leight Laser Lite earplugs. My Arai XD-4 is pretty loud: I'll take off the visor for long-distance days, which does help.
 

BlackRockFox

Active Member
Nov 14, 2018
16
3
33
England
inexorable

I have now fitted an Airflow and it looks a lot better than I thought it might
I have had them on 2 other bikes but thought it might look odd on the HAT

The first thing I noticed is that the top bit seems to be higher than other ones I have had even when on the lowest setting
I now know why someone has lowered it by drilling a second set of holes in the base

Have not had a chance to try out yet

What I get with the OEM screen is not what I would call buffeting but a very, very loud wind roar
Have never had this on a bike before, I am hard of hearing and I find it too much
So god knows what it is like for people with good hearing
It is better with ear plugs but still annoying

I will let you know how I get on with a test ride

...and good luck with your "investigations" Holmes download.jpg
 

inexorable

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2018
158
52
58
UK
hmmmmmm... drilling a lower set of holes might just be the ticket.... even if it's just to store the upper half for when it's not torrential rain (when the wind noise isn't an issue coz I'm only doing max 50mph)

I will find a smoking pipe to suck on for a while while I ponder ;)
 

inexorable

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2018
158
52
58
UK
Quick update. I'm now sure there is no solution for this bike if you're 6'2. The deadly head wobble / buffeting is fixable but the incredible vortex of bad air this bike creates and the resulting unbearable wind roar is not.

The giant Givi screen was never going to work long term as it didn't solve the issue well enough to be worth the sacrficie of sitting behind something so giant.... so I cut it down to be a mini screen and that's the best I've had so far - almost as good as no screen - which is still bad - but better than any screen.

Then my latest attempt was the MRA X-Creen Sport XCSA Universal Adjustable Spoiler - he he....

Bought from RuggedRoads - always a good service.

Product is pretty flimsy and I'd guess it won't last long if you have to move it around a lot - but if you can find a good position and leave it alone I imagine it would be pretty good. Useless for this bike with me on top though so another £80 into the money sucking black hole waste of molecules that is the Honda Africa Twin.

One day I might write a post that isn't full of disappointment about this bike! Not giving up hope for that day - but not holding my breath either. :D

I imagine I will end up with just the adjustable givi - or depending on final noise levels, probably the smallest home-made cut down screen I can get away with. Still got a couple of combinations to try (like tiny screen with silly little spoiler etc - never know what's going to be good).

For the record - I've also got a growing suspision that my fantastic new Arai QV lid is not so fantastic. It might help my bonce if it bounces but it was not a unit designed to be quiet. This is an expensive way to learn stuff! ;)
 

RItwin

Well-Known Member
Gold Rider
Jul 31, 2018
167
100
83
R.I. USA
Quick update. I'm now sure there is no solution for this bike if you're 6'2. The deadly head wobble / buffeting is fixable but the incredible vortex of bad air this bike creates and the resulting unbearable wind roar is not.

The giant Givi screen was never going to work long term as it didn't solve the issue well enough to be worth the sacrficie of sitting behind something so giant.... so I cut it down to be a mini screen and that's the best I've had so far - almost as good as no screen - which is still bad - but better than any screen.

Then my latest attempt was the MRA X-Creen Sport XCSA Universal Adjustable Spoiler - he he....

Bought from RuggedRoads - always a good service.

Product is pretty flimsy and I'd guess it won't last long if you have to move it around a lot - but if you can find a good position and leave it alone I imagine it would be pretty good. Useless for this bike with me on top though so another £80 into the money sucking black hole waste of molecules that is the Honda Africa Twin.

One day I might write a post that isn't full of disappointment about this bike! Not giving up hope for that day - but not holding my breath either. :D

I imagine I will end up with just the adjustable givi - or depending on final noise levels, probably the smallest home-made cut down screen I can get away with. Still got a couple of combinations to try (like tiny screen with silly little spoiler etc - never know what's going to be good).

For the record - I've also got a growing suspision that my fantastic new Arai QV lid is not so fantastic. It might help my bonce if it bounces but it was not a unit designed to be quiet. This is an expensive way to learn stuff! ;)
I mean to be honest if you want complete silence from wind noise and buffeting drive a Mercedes.....your riding a motorcycle there is no "cure" I'm 6-2 and have no problems with a stock screen and a swegotech fork shield and a cheap Bilt $179 helmet with a peak...

Keep the rubber side down

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

inexorable

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2018
158
52
58
UK
I don't want silence - far from it - but I do want to be able to ride for longer than an hour without needing ear help - and that's with race spec ear plugs!

Took the 'busa out at the weekend for a rest. I can put a one in front of any number the Africa Twin does and feel nothing but pure clean air bliss. What a bike! If you've never ridden one - ride one before you hang up your boots. It will ruin rding any other bike but the throttle control and precision is like nothing else you'll ride. Designed in a wind tunnel they say - and it shows.

If only I wasn't so old and could ride it for longer than an hour without need help to get off - lol
 

RItwin

Well-Known Member
Gold Rider
Jul 31, 2018
167
100
83
R.I. USA
I don't want silence - far from it - but I do want to be able to ride for longer than an hour without needing ear help - and that's with race spec ear plugs!

Took the 'busa out at the weekend for a rest. I can put a one in front of any number the Africa Twin does and feel nothing but pure clean air bliss. What a bike! If you've never ridden one - ride one before you hang up your boots. It will ruin rding any other bike but the throttle control and precision is like nothing else you'll ride. Designed in a wind tunnel they say - and it shows.

If only I wasn't so old and could ride it for longer than an hour without need help to get off - lol
I have not had the pleasure of a busa but I have had the pleasure of a 212 mph modified ZX9-R so yes I understand the reference but they are two totally different animals and judging by what you have done to it so far to remedy it you might just be making it worse at this point sometimes less is more is all I'm saying, no offense...the more stuff you add the more turbulent you make the air stream going around you and the bike, the same goes for helmet choice the more things that protrude from the helmets surface the more turbulance and wind noise you will create so for all intents and purposes less is actually more, I think instead of trying to block the wind and buffeting you should instead try to work WITH it and find streamlined solutions, for example my helmet has a small spoiler to counter act the wind grabbing the peak

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

inexorable

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2018
158
52
58
UK
I'm certainly with you about less being more. The best I've found so far is either no screen or a screen that I cut down to be as small as possible. That's just not ideal for long distance / multi day trips - especially in the wind and rain. Too much strain on the chest and shoulders without a screen.

As far as the lid is concerned I don't have a peak. It's an Arai QV touring lid. More of a race deisign so not the quietest in the world but great on the 'busa so pretty well streamlined.

When it comes to mods (and it's only screen changes I'm trying) nothing has solved the roar but everything has been better than the stock screen buffeting. And for sure the smaller the screen the better it gets. So it's kinda catch 22 now. Bike needs a screen but the only solution is less screen.

Amazing how a couple of inches difference in height can change the experience of a bike so dramatically. And even more amazing that changing the height of a screen by a couple of inches doesn't balance it out. Complicated stuff this turbulance eh!
 

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