Front fork anodising wear problems

Discussion in 'CRF1000L(2) Known Issues and Fixes' started by Squily, Jul 22, 2017.

  1. Squily

    Squily Well-Known Member

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    This issue has been discussed in great (but lengthy) detail on the ADV forum in the suspension and problem thread. It starts before this, but starts gaining momentum at p32 onwards.

    http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/africa-twin-crf1000l-suspension.1155122/page-32

    I am mentioning this, because thus far every person whom have pulled apart the forks on their CRF1000 has either reported this problem, or are showing signs of having/developing this problem.

    Basically, the anodising wear off on the inner tube around 190-220mm from the top. This is either just above, or right at the lower pinch-bolt position.

    WP_20170722_006[4027].jpg

    As the anodising wears off, stiction starts to develop. This means the shock basically gets sticky, and not as smooth. The ride becomes more harsh in the initial stroke (can feel like your tyre pressures are too high, or the suspension is bottoming). This is much more noticeable when riding slow in/over rocky/demanding surfaces.

    As wear progresses, it can cause gouges in the allu, as well as chrome tubes.

    Several suspension gurus have reported on the possible issue with the AT and are recommending people have their tubes re-anodised in a thicker or better quality anodising to prevent this from happening.

    There are also some that believe the OEM specified torque values of 25Nm are excessive compared to KTM and other manufacturers (10-12Nm seems to be the norm), and may be the root-cause of the problem. Other simply believe the anodise coating in the standard AT tubes are not thick enough.

    Apart from the damage/wear indicated in the photo above, other tell-tales are non-magnetic silver glitter/flakes in the fork oil when drained and very black oil, I.e. if you drain your fork oil and it contains this, have a look and you'll probably discover the damage as indicated. You have to clean the outer tube well with a rag to spot the damage, as any oil residue left behind in the tube will reflect light and make it almost impossible to spot.

    People have reported this wear on bikes with as little as as 3000miles, The photo above is from a bike with 27kkm.

    So far no-one has reported any positive feedback from Honda acknowledging the problem or having a successful warranty claim. But its early days yet and I will be speaking to my dealer tomorrow to lodge on official warranty claim.The more people look and report this to Honda, the quicker the issue may be dealt with and some headway made.
     
  2. dirtdrone

    dirtdrone New Member

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    Interrsting. Going to keep an eye out for this issue. I'm about 2500 miles in and haven't noticed anything. Going to take a look again and will give Honda US a call in regards to this. Keep us updated if you get any news.
     
  3. Squily

    Squily Well-Known Member

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    #3 Squily, Aug 1, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
    A bit more feedback. There has been a lot more discussion in the ADV forum, and various guys have done various things and tried various things to test some of the hypotheses regarding torquing and flex, but none appears to be conclusive. It may well be a combination of factors at the root cause.

    My local Honda dealer has my forks and have bumped it up the line to Honda Australia. Thus far, no reply from them. One other Australian (that I know of) has lodged a claim/concern on the Honda Australia website; He got a call back from Customer Care stating this is the 1st case and its unknown to them. Since then I have also logged a call on their website, but have not yet had any response.

    By report, a number of fork tubes have been replaced under warranty in US.


    Edit:
    I received a call from the dealer this afternoon and he indicated he has submitted a warranty claim. He recommends that anyone expecting or having problems take their bikes to the dealer and have them submit a warranty claim. All warranty claims automatically gets reported to Honda Japan, and thus Honda Japan will be made aware of any issues
     
  4. Danceswithtrees

    Danceswithtrees Active Member

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    As one of the people that has been affected by this I will be watching to see what happens.I am lucky to have a dealer that replaced my tubes without much issue.My dealer will put in in for warranty after replacement so best of luck to a dealer that treated me with respect.I am one of the trouble makers on adv under the name junglejeff1.For the record I am one that will have my tubes hardcoated properly and run lesser tork on my lower tree.For me it is worth it as I really like this motorcycle.
     
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  5. Davy F

    Davy F Well-Known Member

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    I was obviously a troublemaker on ADVrider too.....but I got a lifetime ban for my trouble. :D
     
  6. Squily

    Squily Well-Known Member

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    LOL - now who's wife did you insult?
     
  7. SoCalEddie

    SoCalEddie Administrator
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    #7 SoCalEddie, Aug 13, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
    @Danceswithtrees Great update. Thanks. Honda is great with warranties and considering submitting this thread to Honda once it gets big enough so Honda can be cognizant of this issue and work on a solution on the newer Africa Twins.

    @Davy F @Squily hahahaha. Had a good laugh.
     
  8. Squily

    Squily Well-Known Member

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    More feedback:

    Honda Australia informed me today that they have inspected the worn fork tube sent to them and found no major issue. "A few microns worth of wear" but as someone else remarked - the anodising is only a few microns thick and they have basically just confirmed that it has worn off.

    Honda Australia will forward the fork on to Honda Japan for further investigation. I have responded, but at this stage it would appear teh tech guys don;t believe us riders that there is a loss in performance as a result of the wear. The dealer believes this matter will probably take a few months to sort out. I will respond if I hear something more.

    The dealer again strongly advises any person who suffers stiction or or performance deterioration to report the matter to their dealers and to lodge an official claim.
     
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  9. Squily

    Squily Well-Known Member

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    FYI & FWIW - Got a reply in writing from Honda yesterday (1st so far)

    Dear John,

    Thank you for raising your concern with the fork tubes on your Honda CRF1000D.

    We wish to advise our Honda Motorcycle Department are in contact with the Dealerships
    (name deleted) at this time.

    We have the fork tubes and the concerns is being reported to the factory in order to have an answer in regards to the Fork performance and Warranty status.

    Once an answer is received it will be conveyed to the Dealer network.

    Please don't hesitate to email or contact 1300 559 846 should you require any further assistance.

    Once again we thank you for your correspondence.

    Kind Regards,


     
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  10. SoCalEddie

    SoCalEddie Administrator
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    Thanks for the update. Keeping a close eye on this issue too.
     
  11. bbanker

    bbanker New Member

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    Watching! I have 5k mi on my bike and do not notice any stiction, so fingers crossed.
     
  12. Mitch

    Mitch Well-Known Member
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  13. Squily

    Squily Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Mitch

    I still have not had any further feedback from Honda Japan or Honda Australia on our outstanding warranty claims for the forks. (Honda Australia forwarded one of the fork legs to Honda Japan for analysis).

    As far as my fork wear goes, during the rebuild of the forks with stiffer springs as recommended by Honda, we rotated the tubed 180 degrees. I noticed the stiction returning after about 3kkm. At about 5kkm, I popped a fork seal and had to replace it, so pulled apart the fork leg for another look. IMO, the problem is now worse and it looks like striations and pitting is starting to form. I have passed the information and a photo to the dealer, who in turn passed it on to Honda Japan and Honda Australia. The saga continues.




    WP_20180108_18_38_10_Pro.jpg
     
  14. Mitch

    Mitch Well-Known Member
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    No doubt, it is a design flaw. But Japanese engineers are very reluctant to admit a mistake and recalls are obviously very expensive. As per Rick's comments I suspect at some point Honda will make a subtle design change and probably not even publicize it, because in doing so they would have to admit there was a problem. We'll see how this all plays out, but it is a shame because it clearly taints what is otherwise a superb machine.
     
  15. GregthePole

    GregthePole Member

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    here's my buddy's fork at 13 k km.. check out the slop


    He's put in a warranty claim, and actually got the ok for the 2018 tubes. there's hope.

    I'm currently tearing in to my forks with 4500km, to do a revalve. Zero wear on one fork, but it's far too early for it to move.
    Write up on the way.
     
  16. Squily

    Squily Well-Known Member

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    I haven't posted in a while, but here's the end of our saga. My dealer contacted me and said Honda Japan has measured my mate's fork sent to them and could not find anything out of spec. And that the wear found was normal. No warranty claim to be honoured.

    The following quote from what was posted on advrider.com

    "Dear Mr Williams,

    Thank you for contacting Honda Australia Motorcycles and Power Equipment regarding your CRF1000A.

    We advise that warranty was denied for the wear on the front fork legs.

    To quote from our technical department notes after a fork leg was sent to the Honda Factory for evaluation.

    "The wear observed was on the rear side of the body, inside the outer tube. This point is where the stress concentrates most. Therefore rubbing with the slide bush by sliding during running presents the wear.
    The parts were disassembled and measured. As a result the measuring of the dimensions of each part found no problem and no problem with the surface.

    The parts were reassembled and the friction measurements were taken. No functional problems were found. Therefore, as no problem was found there is no action to be taken, The forks will not be covered under warranty."

    Kind regards,

    Chris |Honda Australia Motorcycle and Power Equipment Pty Ltd"



    But on the bright side: 2018 models have Kashima coated forks. So Honda USA and Canada are still honouring warranty claims and replacing tubes. Honda Australia is not.

    Good luck
     
  17. GregthePole

    GregthePole Member

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    Shitty! I'm talking to a dude from 'Stralya about re-valving. His has 20+k km on his, and had his tubes re-coated. He never bothered with the warranty.
    I'll run mine till season is done, likely mid october if I'm lucky. Will check for slop, and send the bike off to the dealer for re-work. I should be at the 12-15k mark at that time.
    I just re-valved my forks, will do a complete write up reg. that, shimming the outer fork bushing etc..etc..
     
  18. Admin

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  19. Zappa

    Zappa New Member

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    Put in a request at Honda the manager had his head mechanic submit following - new spokes & new anodize for forks or replacement 2018 fork tubes.

    2017 model no longer under warranty in Canada.

    Elis STS Shock Therapy susp.. guru is installing Intron R1 & Andreani cartridge. So I am really hoping Honda can own this a little bit and do the rite thing imo unofficially or otherwise.

    Shameless pics incoming

    I just wrapped it and I put a Corbin seat on- no stitching all black gripper no leather. I absolutely love it.

    Painted original seat with Sims flexible upholstery paint & scotchgaurd. Will last if you use several coats. A good degraser/cleaning first.[​IMG][​IMG]

    Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk
     

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