Is there a market for a Scotts Stabilizer mount?

Discussion in 'Africa Twin General Discussions' started by OneEarTim, Aug 17, 2017.

  1. Hey everyone. As you've probably already seen I'm in the middle of wrapping up a bar riser project for a new Business (Motorcycle Adventure Gear).
    This post is to get a feel for if there is a market for a Scotts Steering Stabilizer mount.
    I'm definitely making one for my bike. I've owned a LOT of bikes and I've become pretty particular about how my suspension, ergonomics and overall set up is. I think I've added a Scotts to the past four or five bikes I've had and it's been a huge improvement on all of the.
    So let me know what your thoughts are.
    Here is a sneak peak at the progress...
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  2. Hmmm this for me is a difficult one. I can definitely see a use for one when on the road to prevent tank slappers at speed but on the dirt I'm not sure. Off road nothing is ever constant and the need to compensate/adapt riding style and bike control changes many times during a ride. I felt the Scot had to many available settings and unless you know the ground conditions of the route it would be guess work as to what settings to use. This is ok but whatever your settings some would work and some would fail and its the fail part that concerns me. These can be changed while on the go but unless you know the stabiliser inside out this would also be guess work. Personally if I had one it would be 'on for road use' and 'off for dirt'
     
  3. Thanks for the feedback. I can't tell from your post have you ever used one? Some really like them on the street but I really just use them for the dirt. Don't let the abundance of settings scare you. Our suspension has a LOT more adjustments but we usually just enjoy it and make some tweaks to personalize it for us. The reason they only make one setting adjustable while you're riding is because that's pretty much the only one people should be playing with. My personal settings basically don't change from bike to bike accept for the low speed (the one with the knob). Basically if you have it stiff enough where you ever think about it then it's too stiff. I always thought they were a placebo or hype but I bought a bike with one and rode it a bit. Didn't think it did much so I took it off and sold it to my Dad. I bought another one right after my next ride.
    That being said, I'm not here to sell people on the stabilizer idea. That's pretty well sorted out.


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  4. Thanks for the feedback. I'm working on the frame clamp/post right now. I'll keep everyone updated on this thread.


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  5. As normal rider who never understood how a Scotts stabilizer worked until two years ago at a dirt riding clinic I would say yes. Especially for the guys who are taking their Africa Twins out into the desert and rough terrain. For a lot of riders like myself, aesthetic is important and if the aftermarket equipment flows and fits nicely with other equipment, I'm sold. There is that old saying "build it and they will come."
     
  6. Good feedback. Thanks. I think the reason we're starting a business is because there wasn't anything I was excited to spend my money on.
     
  7. @OneEarTim To be fair I have never tried one off road. I would not ride on road or track without a stabiliser/damper for reason stated above. My assumption (and we all know assumption is the route to all F***ups) is from talking to people who have one on their dirtbike but admittedly thought they were just justifying the cost and being bias. It makes me think I'm missing a very important factor here in what benefit does it bring to off road riding? I would like to know as I might be missing out on something that makes off road riding even more enjoyable.
     
  8. Interesting, I personally have never wanted one on the road or track. Not that I don't think it would be good, but I've never felt like I wanted one. I've had some head shake issues with sport bikes but they were always fixed with other things like better suspension tune etc.

    To give you my thoughts on why I use them on the dirt....
    David Knight (Off road legend) said in an interview something like, "your hands should only be working the controls. They shouldn't be steering your bike. That is what your feet, legs and hips are for." If you accept that (and I do) then you will ride with loose hands, arms and shoulders and guide your bike with the pegs, seat and tank. In other words, it's also not your upper bodies job to stabilize your front end.
    For me, adding a scotts stabilizer adds stability to the front end, allowing me to ride looser. Scotts claims that by stabilizing the front end the rest of the suspension works better. I wouldn't buy that kind of statement if I haven't heard LOTS of people say, "it actually makes my bike feel like my suspension works better" or, "It feels like I just had my suspension done".
    Other things to think about...
    Without a damper, your front end geometry is what gives your bike it's stability. When I ride offroad my bike pitches, rolls and yaws a lot. I think Yaw (front up, front down, rear up, rear down) affects front end stability more than anything else that happens. Generally the lower the front end goes in relation to the rear the less stable the bike becomes. In hard braking conditions, through different obstacles, on different trail grade (angle) etc etc etc the bike Yaws a lot which in turn affects the stability.
    I could go on and on, but I will spare you my ramble. In summary, I ride with much looser arms and hands when I have a well set up stabilizer.
    I've tuned, retuned and tuned and tuned my different Scotts stabilizers. I've done the same with a few others and I only buy Scotts now. It's the only one I've used that didn't add a heavier steering feeling. I haven't tried to fancy Ohlins, but it's a pain to mount. I also find that pretty much everyone I know runs them at almost the stock settings and then adjust the base valve a little as they ride. Generally if I'm in high speed desert riding I turn it in 1/2-3/4 of a turn from stock setup. Super tight woods I turn it out 1/4 or leave it at stock. I also think most of the reason I do move it is for placebo affect to make my self feel special.

    Does any of that make sense @Corki Or does it just sound like I'm drinking the kool-aid? Either answer if fine ;-)
     
  9. I never really understood the need for them, or how they effected handling, until my wife and I recently purchased a couple of used dirt bikes. Me a KTM 450 EXC-F and her a KTM 350 EXC-F. While not a 100% direct comparison, they are pretty close. Mine came with a Scott's Steering Stabilizer already mounted, her 350 did not. No skin in the game as far as justifying cost. I really paid nothing for it, paying less than Kelly Bluebook for the bike, despite a boat load of upgrades and add-ons.

    My bike with the stabilizer definitely has a more stable and solid front end than does hers. We plan to add one to her bike as well. Jimmy Lewis, who may not be the legend that David Knight is, but has a fairly impressive bio and runs a reputable off-road training school said of the Scott's Steering Stabilizer in his own review "In over 20-years of running the Scotts Stabilizer I have not met a bike that it didn't help in some way. Especially in off-road it is a safety blanket for the unexpected hit and can relax the shakiness in even the most unstable feeling bike." and listed among it's Pro's "One of the most sure-fire handling improvements to any bike."

    Read more at https://dirtbiketest.com/product-tests/scotts-steering-stabilizer/#sz6WM3gLvaDbsich.99

    Disclaimer: I have no ties to Jimmy Lewis other than taking some clinics from him at the KTM Adventure Rider Rally's but my wife and I really enjoyed Jimmy and his wife Heather at the rallies :)
     
  10. Lewis is still pretty legendary! I'm a bit embarrassed to admit that I used to make fun of my Dad for using one. Kinda like the rekluse. Then I bought a bike with a rekluse and never looked back. Next thing you know I'm buying a DCT LOL
     
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  11. Well the talks of this got me up late to finalize the frame clamp design. I spent WAAAYYY too much time trying to design something that would allow someone to mount it without taking off the top triple clamp. I just don't see a way right now to make it strong enough for me to be happy with. So a single piece clamp it is. There is not a lot of room in there. I'm going to see if I can get something 3D Printed this week for a test fit. IMG_2376.JPG IMG_2383.JPG IMG_2388.JPG
     
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  12. I have never used a Rekluse. Always thought they were gimmicky. But now after purchasing a DCT, my wife is shopping around to have one added to her F800GS and we will likely add them to the dirt bikes as well :)

    Hey, I used to make fun of my dad for buying a car with heated seats too, now I can’t imagine ever owning a car without them.
    I don’t know why heated steering wheels aren’t a bigger thing hahaha

    Edit: Oh and had the heated seat on my KTM 1190, loved it :)


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  13. I liked my Rekluse quite a bit more than my DCT. If I could also have a manual clutch like my Rekluse I would be totally happy with my DCT. I have to admit I'm already considering a 1090 for just that reason.


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  14. I'd say there would be a market, but not sure how big the market is. Not a lot of people feel comfortable to ride a big twin off-road in the type of places where a steering damper would be great. I've had a few nasty tank-slappers at speed on the loose stuff (about 130km.h in pea-gravel and around 165 on the sand/beach), so the bike could definitely benefit from one. But at the same time, same time, I way up the cost. At the moment I just slow down a bit and not go fast enough to where it is an issue.
     
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  15. Once I get mine installed I'll share a ride report.
     
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  16. The first frame clamps are almost done and should be fitted up tomorrow. [​IMG]


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  17. [​IMG]


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  18. @OneEarTim incredible... Really cool to see and read about someone's idea reaching fruition. Keep going!
     
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  19. Thanks @SoCalEddie
    We test fit the frame clamp today and there are some things I'm not happy with. It's testable but the design has already changed and prototype RevB will start next week.
    I'm trying to decide how much clearance to give the factory weld around the head tube. The less the better but robots or even humans aren't as consistent with their weld placement as I would hope. Scotts frame clamps very commonly require some filing from the customer during install to clear the inconsistent factory welds. Anyone have an opinion on this?
    The GREAT news is that I did come up with a design after a LOT of revisions that will not require people to remove their top triple clamp. It's a very stable setup.
    Here are a couple test fit teasers. I'm waiting for a drop arm for the stabilizer before I can test ride it. Might have the new RevB prototype done by then, but those changes are minor clearance changes that won't affect the performance of anything. Don't focus on the bar riser. They have changed quite a bit from the early prototypes seen here.
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